Curse

zwei2stein · Jul 23, 2011, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Furthermore, it's not like this skill will be useless in PvE. A skill that heals all allies in earshot, for a potentially large amount, but that is very dependent on the monk using it at exactly the right time? F*** yes! That's an awesome skill! We should be happy that they turned a skill that was absolutely goddamn useless for everyone except an OP secondary abuse build into a unique and interesting skill. It's not going to save your ass if you spam it randomly, but damn will you feel good when you can get 4 or more triggers out of it.

Nicely put.

We lost brainless mash-button spam skill and got intereting one instead.

And people are annoyed because their popular build got slight nerf?

This is sad. Very sad. Instead of welcoming new build (= new content), people are pissed because they can't grind game exactly same way they were for several years already. Pathetic.

Essence Snow · Jul 23, 2011, 04:07 PM // 16:07

I think a lot of ppl are over estimating the skill's usefullness in PvE....It'll be use briefly used then abandoned. The 20 sec rc and the 4 sec duration for a chance at a heal make the skill weak in PvE. The skill slot can and will be filled by more usefull skills...i.e...it won't be used once ppl get over the intial trial phase. (ofc this is my opinion..we'll see as time progresses)

AndrewSX · Jul 23, 2011, 04:20 PM // 16:20

OT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

FFS, I'd be happy if ER itself got nerfed.

One part of me wholeheartly agree with this.
The other ask what would be left to eles in HM pve if ER got nerfed.
(Read: AP or nothing-and there are ppl who'd like to see AP restricted.)

Reformed · Jul 23, 2011, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

It's not going to save your ass if you spam it randomly, but damn will you feel good when you can get 4 or more triggers out of it.

Or you could use Blood Bond which is a much better skill...6 and 1/2 dozen of the other I suppose.

Apok · Jul 23, 2011, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Use Reversal of Fortune, you crybabbies.

Kunder · Jul 23, 2011, 05:56 PM // 17:56

I swear, if Anet went ahead and reworked Healing Signet one idiot who had their build changed would start the QQ and then, apparently, everyone who ever played Warrior would scream OMG NERF MAI WARRIOR HOW DARE U ANET?

As to the new SG, my thoughts:

- When it works, it works well. Really well. Its possibly the first earshot-range spell that actually takes some skill to use rather than mashing it on recharge.

- When it doesn't work, its bad. The problem is that the 75% block rate means it can potentially not work even if you use it right. After 6 years of guild wars everyone pretty much agrees that 50% block rate is good, and 75% is amazing. 75% does not work well enough for SG, either in PvP or PvE, because with the short timing simple statistical variability can mess you up too easily. I still maintain that this skill would be quite fine in a pre-OPTheRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOOutOfEverything (read: pre-nightfall) environment, but for making it worthy now it could use some slight tweaks.

Suggested changes (pick any):

- Increase duration to 2...5, with a breakpoint of 5s at r12. This would force PvPers to actually hold back for more than half a second in their pressure. This makes it much better as an indirect prot-enhancer, because it distinctly discourages target switching and thereby makes single target prot significantly stronger during its duration. I'm trying to be conservative with this, if it got to 7/8s w/+20% enchants we could be in real danger of Shield Guardian chains that make pressuring useless. On the PvE side, it simply makes it more reliable even during slight mistimings, which makes it much more attractive there.

- 100% block rate. Sounds extreme, but when an attacker might only get in 1 or 2 attacks before SG ends or (in PvP) figures out to hold back for .5s, you absolutely need SG to trigger on that first attack. In contrast to the above, this makes a skill that physicals in PvP have to react to instantly by or face the consequences. This makes it more useful and harder to play against.

- if SG lasts its full duration, heal the player it is on 10...40 health. Probably the most uninspiring and tactically uninteresting change, but it avoids 100% block rate which some may find silly and ensures no chance of ugly SG chaining.

*lemming* · Jul 23, 2011, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Balances would always be easier with a PVE / PVP split. That was the reason why it was added in.

Your idea of balance appears to be whatever grossly overpowered bar you like running not getting indirectly nerfed as a PvP change.

Cry me a river.

Vazze · Jul 23, 2011, 06:58 PM // 18:58

If this is a nerf to ER, than big lol: you guys need to learn how to hit with that bat, because what you are doing now is closer to "poking".

If this is a pvp update, I don't think you managed to buff it enough.

NerfHerder · Jul 23, 2011, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I'll miss the old Shield Guardian, simply for its OP'ness. But, the ER Protter is still pretty powerful so I cant complain. Just have to be a little more careful when aggroing alot of physical foes, no biggy.

I kinda like the idea of turning OP PvE skills into useful PvP skills. I just hope the new SG finds some use in PvP, otherwise the skill change didnt accomplish anything but yet another nerf to Ele's. Poor PvE Ele's, they cant catch a break.

Outerworld · Jul 23, 2011, 07:56 PM // 19:56

The old SG wasn't actually that good, ER's used it because of its recharge, something RoF will acomplish just as easily. So yeah...it was a non-key Monk skill used in one and only one Ele build that's not exactly common anyway, yet this is a skill worth splitting?

Killed u man · Jul 23, 2011, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Heal should depend on divine favor, for obvious reasons...

Keyez · Jul 23, 2011, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Looks literally impossible to get the full amount of benefits out of this skill in organised PvP.

Personally, I can't see it being used.

Chthon · Jul 24, 2011, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

-snip-

Say what you like, but the fact remains that the new version sucks badly for PvE. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting a screenshot or video of this skill delivering on its supposed promise in a general PvE setting, but please stop with the theorycraft cheerleading.

Elnino · Jul 24, 2011, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Shield Guardian won't be useful for the SC community and those players that live by tanking to soak up all the aggro. I can see it being more useful in generic pve when you just run staright into a mob and everything is scattered everywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

The other ask what would be left to eles in HM pve if ER got nerfed.

Lots! Once mesmers, rits and necros are nerfed.

Zodiac Meteor · Jul 24, 2011, 03:06 AM // 03:06

When I saw this update I was like:
O____o
What was the point?

Shield Guardian is gone which hurts my ER ele a little, big wop, Spirit Bond says "Hi!" A skill that grants a few seconds of invincibility and is spammable. Oh and Infuse Health is there, chillin' with the big healz.

ArenaNet can't nerf ER ele's due to the fact they can't do crap for damage, making the class utterly useless. It would be the same as nerfing Save Yourselves! and Frenzy, without that, it become easily outclassed by other professions. Unless they change how elemental damage, deals damage.

This skill has no place for PvP, Healing Burst is all the party-wide heals you need. The recharge and casting time kills it in GvG and HA, plus it's in protection prayers thus making it useless in RA. I have yet won a 25 win streak with any protection prayers skill on my bar.

Hey ArenaNet, you win RA with rebbaring Healing Burst, Patient Spirit and Signet of Rejuvenation. Hell, I got 25 wins last night without Vigorous Spirit, instead I brought "None Shall Pass!" in it's place for lolwut. I'm shocked no one on my team posted "What's The Stupidest Thing You've Heard While Playing Guild Wars?" on my build and yes, 25 wins, without Vigorous Spirit. So dumb.

It's like ArenaNet tried to send a message saying, "We see the problem and we will fix it with a light tweek. Fixing one powerful build to be less powerful and giving the skill Shield Guardian use! We smart!" Then forgetting completely about how meta game is.

Edit:
OH, I figured out the use for it! It is to buff monsters in PvE, since they can't figure out how to spam 1 skill.

*lemming* · Jul 24, 2011, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Sure, I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of the skill's relative lack of viability as of the moment in GvG, but

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

This skill has no place for PvP, Healing Burst is all the party-wide heals you need.

um

what

??????????????????????????????????????

tummlykins · Jul 24, 2011, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

uh

this was specifically a pvp update

or you might just be the biggest troll in riverside and i just got baited hard

If it was specifically a PvP update why did they nerf a PvE meta skill? This was used on almost every ER E/Mo hero in the game. The E/Mo hero was part of the PvE meta.

If they had no intention of altering PvE, why did they kill the skill from being used in its previous highly popular form instead of simply spliting them? PvE already had Aegis in it's old functionality (and mostly only /N ran that) we didn't need a second skill to do a weaker version of Aegis for the same cost and recharge. Any monk that runs protection prayers is going to be running healing as well, they won't be desperate for the heal this skill is going to provide. This skill isn't a boon for PvE monks, it's a nerf for PvE E/Mos.

Regardless of what this skill does for PvP players, they didn't split it for PvE even though they nerfed a very common, powerful and popular use of it. If you are playing end game HM PvE and your party has several classes taking hits at the same time (enough to get multiple Shield Guardian triggers) you are doing something seriously wrong and have bigger problems than a little healing will fix.

A good PvE team should only get one trigger off of this skill at most.

*lemming* · Jul 24, 2011, 10:15 AM // 10:15

I wish I didn't have to repost this from the update thread just a day before.

Go make a thread for PvE class balance discussions if you really want to talk about it. Keep it out of this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tummlykins

If it was specifically a PvP update why did they nerf a PvE meta skill? This was used on almost every ER E/Mo hero in the game. The E/Mo hero was part of the PvE meta.

I'm sure someone from the Test Krewe proper will come along to correct me, but to the best of my knowledge, there was exactly zero discussion about any potential PvE ramifications of changing Shield Guardian's functionality.

Either the Live Team was completely unaware, or they didn't care.

Elnino · Jul 24, 2011, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Well, skills that are heavily used and are staples in the current meta are usually prime targets for skill changes and I applaud Anet for killing two birds with one stone.

superraptors · Jul 24, 2011, 01:13 PM // 13:13

pve meta... lol pretty sure there are many many builds that can steam roll pve

pve must be serious aye clearing underworld and doa in less then an hour. try having nothing handed to you once in a while mate. what this game needs is less red bar button mashing skills